ABC:1 Timothy 6
Verse 16 (Seeing God Patheos)
Patheos' Bob Seidensticker claims there is a contradiction here and makes the following comments (italicized):[1]
“ | No one can see God (or can they?) 1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. But Adam and Eve saw God. So did Abraham and Moses: Genesis 18:1 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. |
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No one has seen God the Father at any time. That it is evident a distinction is being drawn between God the Father and Jesus, the Son of God, is evident from John 1:18, as they are both mentioned separately. However, Jesus as the Old Testament Angel of the Lord has been seen, and seen consistently throughout the Old Testament. Jacob even later states that it was an Angel whom he was wrestling, and whom he called God. See Genesis 48:16, "The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." For more on Jesus as the Old Testament Angel of the Lord, see Christophanies.
Verse 16 (Seeing God Infidels)
Infidels includes on its "List of Biblical Contradictions" the question, "God be seen?" while making the following comments (italicized).[2] ThinkingAtheist also makes a similar criticism in the section "Who has seen God?"[3]
“ | God CAN be seen:
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. Exodus 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Exodus 24:9 ¶ Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: Amos 9:1 ¶ I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered. Genesis 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? God CANNOT be seen: John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. |
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Meritt claims Exodus 33 contradicts itself by saying God spoke to Moses face to face (v. 11) but that Moses was unable to see God's face since none can see God's face and live. (vv. 20,23)
Jesus Was God
The answer to this is really pretty simple, and contained in John 1:18 - none have seen God the Father, but God the Father has declared His Son, the Word, to be God as well. This answer is also provided by Jesus. Jesus claimed to have existed with God the Father before the world itself and to have shared His Father's glory. This is repeated elsewhere as well in the Bible. (Proverbs 8:22-31; Colossians 1:17; 1 John 1:1-3) Jesus in Revelation 1:7-8 is called "the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Isaiah 9:6 prophesied that His name would be "Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
“ | John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. |
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Christophanies
A number of times in the Old Testament it appears another, more tangible form of God appears, God the Son, and this is called a 'Christophany.'[4] Jesus after all said He Himself was the original God of Israel.
“ | John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Genesis 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. |
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The book of John presents this as the God of Israel coming to His own and being rejected. Jesus spoke with sorrow of His past relationship with Israel.
“ | John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 ¶ John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! |
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The Pharisees refused to consider the eternal nature of Jesus as God's Son, and thus were puzzled by Jesus' riddle showing David's prophesies of the Messiah evidenced an eternal Creator coming to Earth as the Messiah in human form.
“ | Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions. |
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Jesus, Angel of the Lord
What many people don't realize is that when God spoke to Moses originally in the burning bush, to Abraham even earlier, and to Jacob, it was not God the Father speaking, but the 'Angel of the Lord' who spoke.
“ | Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. Genesis 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, Genesis 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I. Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Genesis 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the eart |
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Other cases of apparent Christophanies in the Bible, including places where the Angel of the Lord is called God, include:
“ | Genesis 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. 13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; Exodus 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: Judges 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. Judges 6:21 Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight. Judges 13:21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. 2 Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite. Isaiah 37:36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. 1 Chronicles 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. |
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As seen above, the Angel of the Lord was referred to as God a number of times. Some of the KJV translators may have recognized this as several times they capitalized the word 'Angel.' (Genesis 48:16; Exodus 23:20,23,34; 32:34) However, whenever angels or people were called God, they said God alone should be worshiped. Therefore, it is clear from the Bible that the Angel of the Lord was no mere angel, for if so it should have denied the worship it received.
“ | Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Acts 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. |
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Conclusion
It appears thus that the first half of Exodus 33 refers to Jesus appearing as the Angel of the Lord and speaking to Moses, just as He did throughout the Old Testament to many of the patriarchs, and was called God frequently when doing so. The last half of the chapter refers to God the Father Himself speaking and saying none can see His face. Genesis 32:30 refers to Jesus, the Angel of the Lord, as God, as do many other places in the Old Testament. Thus Jesus could be seen face to face, yet be considered God, while God the Father could not be seen face to face as something in God the Father's glorious nature meant those who looked on His face would die.
Verse 16 (God's Dwelling)
The EvilBible claims a contradiction exists here, and makes the following comments.[5]
“ | 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
God dwells in light 1 Kings 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. Psalms 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. Psalms 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. God dwells in darkness |
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Context
The distinction here is only apparent from examining the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament passages. Simply put the KJV translated a word as "darkness" that actually would be better translated as "storm" or "stormcloud", the Hebrew word araphel.[6] The normal Hebrew word used in the Old Testament for darkness is actually choshek which is translated "dark" or "darkness" 77 out of 80 times by the KJV.[7] Another Hebrew word sometimes translated darkness, ophel, refers to dusk, a time of day, as seen from its use in Job 3:6 and Psalms 91:6.[8]
The following is the full interlinear text of the three controversial Old Testament passages in question, I have bolded the controversial Hebrew words translated as darkness. The first and third passages are using the word araphel while the second is referring to a temporary gathering of darkness God the Father made around Him when going to rescue Jesus from Hell. I quote much of this second passage to show the context, that this was a temporary event, not a perpetual dwelling.
“ | 1 Kings 8:12 Then spake <'amar> Solomon, <Sh@lomoh> The LORD <Y@hovah> said <'amar> that he would dwell <shakan> in the thick darkness. <`araphel>
Psalms 18:4 The sorrows <chebel> of death <maveth> compassed <'aphaph> me, and the floods <nachal> of ungodly men < beliya'al> made me afraid. <ba`ath> Psalms 97:2 Clouds <`anan> and darkness <`araphel> are round about <cabiyb> him: righteousness <tsedeq> and judgment <mishpat> are the habitation <makown> of his throne. <kicce'> |
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Meaning of Araphel
Again, the word araphel as seen from its usage throughout the Bible shows it's referring to storms and storm clouds[6], in fact of the 15 times it is used in the Old Testament, 9 of the times it is mentioned in immediate connection with the Hebrew word anan meaning "cloud"[9] (Deut. 4:11; 5:22; 1 Ki. 8:11-12; 2 Chr. 5:14-6:1; Job 38:9; Ps. 97:2; Ez. 34:12; Joel 2:2; Zep. 1:15) and 3 times in connection with the Hebrew word ab meaning "cloud" or "dark cloud."[10] (2 Sam. 22:10-12, Job 22:13, Ps. 18:9-12)
The following is a complete list of all 15 places in the Old Testament where the Hebrew word araphel is used showing that it does mean "storm" or "storm cloud", I have bolded both it and the Hebrew word anan in the passages for ease of reading.
“ | Exodus 20:21 And the people <`am> stood <`amad> afar off <rachowq>, and Moses <Mosheh> drew near <nagash> unto the thick darkness <`araphel> where God <'elohiym> was.
Deuteronomy 4:11 And ye came near <qarab> and stood <`amad> under the mountain <har>; and the mountain <har> burned <ba`ar> with fire <'esh> unto the midst <leb> of heaven <shamayim>, with darkness <`araphel>, clouds <`anan>, and thick darkness <choshek>. Deuteronomy 5:22 These words <dabar> the LORD <Y@hovah> spake <dabar> unto all your assembly <qahal> in the mount <har> out of the midst <tavek> of the fire <'esh>, of the cloud <`anan>, and of the thick darkness <`araphel>, with a great <gadowl> voice <qowl>: and he added no more <yacaph>. And he wrote <kathab> them in two <sh@nayim> tables <luwach> of stone <'eben>, and delivered <nathan> them unto me. 2 Samuel 22:10 He bowed <natah> the heavens <shamayim> also, and came down <yarad>; and darkness <`araphel> was under his feet <regel>. 1 Kings 8:11 So that the priests <kohen> could <yakol> not stand <`amad> to minister <sharath> because <paniym> of the cloud: <`anan> for the glory <kabowd> of the LORD <Y@hovah> had filled <male'> the house <bayith> of the LORD. <Y@hovah> 2 Chronicles 5:14 Then said <'amar> Solomon <Sh@lomoh>, The LORD <Y@hovah> hath said <'amar> that he would dwell <shakan> in the thick darkness <`araphel>. Job 22:13 And thou sayest <'amar>, How doth God <'el> know <yada`>? can he judge <shaphat> through the dark cloud <`araphel>? Job 38:9 When I made <suwm> the cloud <`anan> the garment <l@buwsh> thereof, and thick darkness <`araphel> a swaddlingband <chathullah> for it, Psalms 18:9 He bowed <natah> the heavens <shamayim> also, and came down <yarad>: and darkness <`araphel> was under his feet <regel>. Psalms 97:2 Clouds <`anan> and darkness <`araphel> are round about <cabiyb> him: righteousness <tsedeq> and judgment <mishpat> are the habitation <makown> of his throne <kicce'>. Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness <choshek> shall cover <kacah> the earth <'erets>, and gross darkness <`araphel> the people <l@om>: but the LORD <Y@hovah> shall arise <zarach> upon thee, and his glory <kabowd> shall be seen <ra'ah> upon thee. Jeremiah 13:16 Give <nathan> glory <kabowd> to the LORD <Y@hovah> your God <'elohiym>, before he cause darkness <chashak>, and before your feet <regel> stumble <nagaph> upon the dark <nesheph> mountains <har>, and, while ye look <qavah> for light <'owr>, he turn <suwm> it into the shadow of death <tsalmaveth>, and make <shiyth> <shiyth> it gross darkness <`araphel>. Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd <ra`ah> seeketh out <baqqarah> his flock <`eder> in the day <yowm> that he is among <tavek> his sheep <tso'n> that are scattered <parash>; so will I seek out <baqar> my sheep <tso'n>, and will deliver <natsal> them out of all places <maqowm> where they have been scattered <puwts> in the cloudy <`anan> and dark <`araphel> day <yowm>. Joel 2:2 A day <yowm> of darkness <choshek> and of gloominess <'aphelah>, a day <yowm> of clouds <`anan> and of thick darkness <`araphel>, as the morning <shachar> spread <paras> upon the mountains <har>: a great <rab> people <`am> and a strong <`atsuwm>; there hath not been <hayah> ever <`owlam> the like, neither shall be any more <yacaph> after <'achar> it, even to the years <shaneh (in pl. only),> of many <dowr> generations <dowr>. Zephaniah 1:15 That day <yowm> is a day <yowm> of wrath <`ebrah>, a day <yowm> of trouble <tsarah> and distress <m@tsuwqah>, a day <yowm> of wasteness <show'> and desolation <m@show'ah>, a day <yowm> of darkness <choshek> and gloominess <'aphelah>, a day <yowm> of clouds <`anan> and thick darkness <`araphel>, |
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As seen above, there are only 3 of the 15 passages (Ex. 20:21; Is. 60:2; Jer. 13:16) that don't immediately mention the Hebrew words for cloud (anan and ab) in connection with the word araphel, and 2 of those 3 do mention clouds, just not in the immediately adjoining verses. In the Exodus 20:21 passage it shows God speaking to Israel from araphel or the storm cloud, and if you look back at Exodus 19:9 and 19:16-17 it specifically uses the Hebrew word ab in saying God spoke to them from the cloud. As for Isaiah 60:2, it ends up mentioning clouds with the word ab in verse 8.
“ | Exodus 19:9 And the LORD <Y@hovah> said <'amar> unto Moses, <Mosheh> Lo, I come <bow'> unto thee in a thick <`ab> cloud, <`anan> that the people <`am> may hear <shama`> when I speak <dabar> with thee, and believe <'aman> thee for ever. <`owlam> And Moses <Mosheh> told <nagad> the words <dabar> of the people <`am> unto the LORD. <Y@hovah>
Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third <sh@liyshiy> day <yowm> in the morning, <boqer> that there were thunders <qowl> and lightnings, <baraq> and a thick <kabed> cloud <`anan> upon the mount, <har> and the voice <qowl> of the trumpet <showphar> exceeding <m@`od> loud; <chazaq> so that all the people <`am> that was in the camp <machaneh> trembled. <charad> Isaiah 60:8 Who are these that fly <`uwph> as a cloud, <`ab> and as the doves <yownah> to their windows <'arubbah>? |
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At any rate, in 14 of the 15 passages where the Hebrew word araphel is used in the Old Testament it clearly is referring to storm clouds, not just darkness in general.
Conclusion
In other words, God dwells with light in Heaven but surrounds Himself with dark stormclouds when coming down to meet human beings on Earth. God the Father dwells with the ultimate source of light, Jesus the Son of God, who at the end of time will be the only light source needed for the New Jerusalem. When Jesus said He was the "Light of the World" in other words He wasn't just figuratively speaking.
“ | Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. | ” |
However, as seen from the numerous passages above, God surrounds Himself with dark stormclouds when He comes down to meet human beings (Ex. 19:9,20:21; Deut. 4:11,5:22; 2 Sam. 22:10-12; Ps. 18:9) God ultimately uses these dark storm clouds as a covering, a curtain or barrier. (Job 22:14) Thus, dark stormclouds are used to surround light.
Sources
- ↑ Seidensticker, P. (2018, October 20). "Top 20 Most Damning Bible Contradictions." Patheos.
- ↑ Meritt, Jim (1992). A list of Biblical contradictions. Retrieved from http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html.
- ↑ TheThinkingAtheist. Bible Contradictions. Retrieved from http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions.
- ↑ GotQuestions.org. What is a theophany? What is a Christophany? Got Questions Ministries. Retrieved from http://www.gotquestions.org/theophany-Christophany.html.
- ↑ Thiefe, Chris. Biblical Contradictions. EvilBible.com.
- ↑ 6.0 6.1 Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. Hebrew Lexicon entry for `araphel.' The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.
- ↑ Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. Hebrew Lexicon entry for Choshek. The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.
- ↑ Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. Hebrew Lexicon entry for 'ophel.' The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.
- ↑ Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. Hebrew Lexicon entry for `anan.' The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.
- ↑ Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. Hebrew Lexicon entry for `ab.' The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon.